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As an entrepreneur, when you build something you love, getting feedback can be scary. But today’s guest, Nicole Haney, Founder and CEO of Boho Bake Shop and Boho Bars, knew that feedback would be what could make her product even better. So she embraced it.
Nicole played around with recipes in her kitchen hoping to create an energy bar she could take on work trips. She knew she’d discovered something great when other people loved them as well. So she quit her job and went all in. Nicole started by selling her bars at a farmer’s market. The biggest piece of feedback she got from that crowd was that they wanted the bars to be more accessible. So she set out to persuade local markets to carry her bars. The next piece of feedback she received came when she noticed people weren’t interested in her free samples.
When she asked why, someone told her they didn’t like energy bars because they typically didn’t taste good. That’s when Nicole realized she’d been focusing the marketing too much on the clean ingredients and not enough on the great taste. So she adjusted. It’s really easy to get bogged down on all of the feedback you get in the early stages, but sometimes it’s what takes your business to the next level. On today’s episode, we discuss when to listen to feedback and when to just keep moving.
The Ivey Entrepreneur Podcast is sponsored by Connie Clerici, QS ’08, and Closing the Gap Healthcare Group, Inc.
Transcript
You're listening to the Ivey entrepreneur podcast from the Pierre L. Morrissette Institute for Entrepreneurship at the Ivey Business School. In this series Ivey entrepreneur, and Ivey faculty member Eric Janssen will anchor the session.
Eric Janssen
Starting new things is really hard, especially when you're leaving a perfectly good job or even a great job and entering an incredibly crowded space and health food. How do you know when to leave or what to make or what to invest in? In a word, feedback? Feedback is absolutely critical, but who do you even listen to? On the positive side, it can reinforce your decision to leave or product investments, but on the negative side, it can kill early stage ideas in their most fragile stage. In this episode, Nicole Haney from Boho bars talks us through how to use feedback to guide strategy, who to listen to at each stage of your business, and when to make those big investments or leaps. Alright, I'm here today with Nicole Haney from Boho bake shop.
Nicole Haney
Hi, Eric. How are you?
Eric Janssen
Hi, I've never been happier. Nicole, how are you?
Nicole Haney
I'm fantastic.
Eric Janssen
And isn't is it Boho bars or Boho big shop or both.
Nicole Haney
It's both actually. So I started with Boho bake shop. And that has now fleshed out into a full vegan donut bakery. And now Boho bars has launched as well. And those are whole food energy bars. So that's a company onto itself now as well.
Eric Janssen
Got it. So to two separate companies, but operating out of the same production facility?
Nicole Haney
Correct!
Eric Janssen
Got it. Okay. So Nicole, you were currently in London, Ontario where Boho bake shop is located. Did you grew up in London?
Nicole Haney
I did born and raised!
Eric Janssen
Born and raised in London. How did this whole venture get started? And actually, before you get into the story of how Boho got going, maybe rewind a little bit to like, how did you discover that you might actually be entrepreneurial? Was there anybody in your family that was an entrepreneur and like rewind the tape a little bit more for me?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, for sure. So no one in my family was an entrepreneur, and really growing up, I never considered entrepreneurship as an option. But I really always had that entrepreneurial spirit in me. I'm a very determined person. And some would say, strong willed. And when I know what I want to go for it, and I think those are all qualities that you really have to have as an entrepreneur. And so when I found my passion, I realized this is a path I could go down. And it would be really cool. And what an adventure to have.
Eric Janssen
Cool. So I don't struggle with passion. But I get a lot of frustration from entrepreneurs, or would be entrepreneurs that I speak with saying like, I don't know, I don't know what my passion is. There's a bunch of stuff that I like, but like, I don't really know what it is. How did you discover that baking or healthy food or fitness or health is your passion? How did you get there?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, so I kind of stumbled upon it accidentally. So I would say about six or seven years ago, I really got into health and wellness. And that had not always been the case. I was not a healthy kid. I was not an athletic kid. And I always really, really loved food, especially junk food, anything that tasted good was definitely on the roster for me. But when I turned 25, one of my friends said, You know what, come to the gym with me. And I said no, no, no, like, this is not my thing. I don't go to the gym. That's not for me. And I went and I took a spin class with her. Absolutely hated it.
Eric Janssen
So not passion right away.
Nicole Haney
No, no passion right away, definitely not. But eventually I found running. And I fell in love with running. And then the healthy eating kind of followed from that. Because I noticed that when I ate all my favorite foods, junk foods, things that tasted good to me at the time that I just didn't have the motivation or the energy to go for a run. And so I started playing around with some recipes to make my favorite foods healthier. And so along the way in doing that, that's kind of when I found my passion for creating these healthy products
Eric Janssen
Got it. So the the eating healthier and the cooking the the recipes came because you realize that eating healthier cooking healthier lead to better performance. It's almost like self fulfilling, right? And I found that too, like when I'm competing in a CrossFit tournament or something like that. It's like eat really crappy the weeks leading up or the day before, it actually really does affect your performance. So the better you eat, the more proper fuel you feed your body the battery before.
Nicole Haney
That's absolutely the case.
Cool.
Eric Janssen
Cool. So you figured you figured this out. You got interested in it, but you had a full time job. Right, you were working in the corporate world doing reasonably well. How did you decide to make the leap?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, well, it was right around the time I turned 30, I honestly did not think I was going to have a problem turning 30 I thought it was gonna be totally fine. And then I turned 30. And I had a bit of a meltdown. And I just thought, you know, I need to be doing something with my life that I'm super, super passionate about. And that's how I wanted to spend the next 20 or 30 years of my life which was chasing something that I felt really passionate about. And so I was kind of searching. As you mentioned, a lot of entrepreneurs don't know what their passion is. And so I was kind of searching and searching and searching. And as I started to create these healthy products, it occurred to me how passionate I was about creating these products. And then as soon as I started sharing them with other people, that was it. I was I was bitten by the entrepreneurship bug, I realized that not only could I make these amazing products for myself, but I could share it with the world and start encouraging other people to make healthier choices for their lives as well.
Eric Janssen
Got it. Do you remember the first person who you shared some of your recipes with?
Nicole Haney
I do! Absolutely. It was my friend and colleague, Sarah. So we had gone on a business trip together. And I actually had gone to the grocery store, and I was looking for an energy bar that I could just bring with me on the business trip, because I knew it was going to be really busy. And I couldn't find what I was looking for. So I ended up going home and making my own sort of threw a bunch of stuff from my pantry in a bowl, threw in a pan kind of hope for the best. And then I packed them into Ziploc baggies, believe it or not. And I was eating them on the business trip. And my friend Sarah was like, What are you eating out of Ziploc baggies right now what is happening? And I told her like these are a homemade energy bar. They're really good, actually, if you want to give them a try. And so she tried them, and she absolutely loved them. And so that was that was kind of the start of knowing that I might be onto something here.
Eric Janssen
Got it. So wanted to focus today on feedback. And I guess that would have been your very first piece of feedback. You you made them for yourself thought they were pretty good. Pack them up and some of the ugly plastic bags on a business trip. You share them with your colleagues, she likes them. You thought interesting. This is kind of cool. A lot of people would hear interesting, but not do anything about it. So yeah, what happened after you said, woo, she likes them. This is interesting. What did you do?
Nicole Haney
Yeah. So I came back. And I started talking with some of my other family and friends and colleagues and people, people thought it was interesting as well. And so they said, Okay, well, if you want me to try them, I'm happy to try them provide some feedback to you too. And so I started baking batches upon batches of bars for my friends and family and colleagues, and just handing them out for free. And just saying try it. And let me know what you think. And people started going crazy for them and asking me to make them for them on a regular basis. And so it wasn't really a side business or anything like that. It was literally just me making the stuff for free and handing it out and and hoping for the feedback in return. So that was kind of the start of it.
Eric Janssen
That's cool. So it's interesting, right? There's so many, so many ways, often that people think about starting these businesses, you can either you could have done, you could have got some market research reports and looked at how big the market was for healthy energy bars or healthy healthy snacks. Probably would have got freaked out. Because there's a lot of competition. Emmys is a fast growing high growth market right now. But there's a lot of competition. But you didn't you went to the kitchen, you shipped I guess what we'd call a minimum viable product, probably didn't look great. But tasted good. Yeah. And got it into the hands of as many people as possible. And the feedback was good. Did you get any not good feedback.
Nicole Haney
I got a couple people that were saying they didn't like certain aspects of it. So one of my friends just absolutely hates coconut. And she said, You know what, you need to take the shredded coconut right out of this. And so I listened to that a little bit. But I thought, I love coconut And I and a lot of people love coke. And I think I'm gonna leave the coconut in.
Eric Janssen
Yeah. So how did you decide in the early days, who to listen to and who not to listen to? Because that maybe that's an easy one. Or maybe it's easier with food in general. That's a specific preference for a specific type of food or flavor. But you must have been you must have gotten a bunch of it from your friends and family early days. How did you decide what to ignore and what to incorporate?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, especially in the early stages, it's really easy to get bogged down by all of the feedback that you're going to get starting out in a business because everyone wants to offer their advice and I think what it comes down to is really just knowing what it is you want to achieve in your business. And keeping that vision in your mind. And eventually that vision becomes your mission statement. And it becomes sort of what you're pursuing as a business and what you stand for as a business. But in the early days, you have to sort of figure out what your vision is, and really follow your gut.
Eric Janssen
So maybe run me through them the order of operations, because you're saying, if you got feedback that wasn't necessarily going to be helpful or get you closer to your vision, then you're able to filter that out. But in order to do that, you'd have to have a vision. So maybe walk me through how did you take me from sample these at a business meeting, sharing them with your colleague, started distributing them getting good feedback, walk me through the order of operations, when you set the vision? How did you actually get this thing going?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, for sure. So getting started out very small in a farmers markets, and I was able to get in front of customers on a regular basis and get a lot of feedback really quickly. Some feedback was fantastic. And some feedback was not so great. But really just
Eric Janssen
Sorry, didn't interrupt. So you got them in front of family and friends. They said, Good. You said next thing I want to do then is get them in front of other people. Get them in front of people who aren't family and friends.
Nicole Haney
Yeah. Well, I mean, the next thing I did actually was quit my job.
Eric Janssen
Whoa. Okay. Fairly early in the process.
Nicole Haney
Yeah, very early in the process. I think I just I realized my passion very early on. And I realized that I wanted to get people choosing healthier options in their lives. And if I could do that through a fantastic tasting product, that also happens to be healthy, then that was something I was going to pursue. And I didn't want to be left wondering, what if what if I had gone down that path and had started a business? What could have happened? So I thought, you know what, I'm gonna do it. I'm still young. I'm going to go out there, try my hand at it. And if all else fails, I can go back to my day job.
Eric Janssen
Wow. Okay, so I guess there's different ways to look at it right. Sometimes people will get another train on the tracks while the other one is going. Because you could have really gone to the farmers market and got more feedback and tried to scale this thing up in your part time, maybe. But you burn the ships right away, you quit and said screw it. There's no other option. It's like we're gonna make this thing go or not, there really wasn't an option to fail.
Nicole Haney
Remember what I said about being strong willed?
Eric Janssen
Yeah. This was going to happen.
Nicole Haney
Yeah, absolutely. This was gonna happen. I was determined.
Eric Janssen
Wow. Okay, cool. So you quit your job. You went to the farmers market. I guess I'm trying to get to at what point did you or did you sit down and like, do any semblance of a plan or your vision or a logo or anything like that?
Nicole Haney
I think that came a little bit later, to be honest with you. I think I went into the business, truthfully, quite naively, in thinking, I'm just gonna go to a farmers market, I'm going to sell some products. And that's how I'm going to make my living. And I got into it. And I realized you don't make a living working one day a week at a farmers market, although that might be the dream. But I as I started to get into it, that was when I realized if I want to do this, I have to be all in. And I really have to make some decisions here about what that looks like.
Eric Janssen
Got it. Okay, so you go to the farmers market, you start to get some at that point where you you upgraded from Ziploc bags to something else.
Nicole Haney
I did. Yeah. Yeah. So we had kind of a rudimentary version of our first flavor of Boho bar. And we were packaging it in these kind of plastic baggies, and printing labels on a residential grade printer. It was very grassroots. And actually, the bars were an add on to the rest of our bakery products initially.
Eric Janssen
Got it. Okay. So you start selling these at farmer's markets. You're getting net positive feedback, though.
Nicole Haney
Yes.
Eric Janssen
So what's next? Where did you go from there?
Nicole Haney
Yes. So when we started at the farmers market, I had like 15 different products that I was selling there. So we we had everything you can imagine brownies, cookies, donuts, and these bars. And I really thought that the base goes would be the star of the show, because who doesn't want a healthy donut, right? Like that's, that was my value prop. And what I started to realize is that, yes, people would come and they would buy a donut, but they would also buy 12 of these energy bars that we had at the same time. And so I started paying attention to the buying patterns of the customers that were walking up to our booth. And I realized this was happening. So I started asking questions. And I said, Hey, so I noticed you're buying a lot of these bars. Can I ask what is it you like about them how you're consuming them and started really just getting feedback and not manner.
Eric Janssen
In real time live from the people that were buying?
Nicole Haney
Real time live from the people?
Eric Janssen
Yeah, smart. That's the dream of a lot of these consumer type products is you want to be a part of everybody's have it a doughnut, maybe there are people that buy donuts every day, probably fewer and fewer, maybe people that buy a donut for themselves or for their kids once a week as a nice treat. But if you can be part of their regular routine, getting people to buy your product on a or use your product on a daily, weekly, whatever basis on a regular schedule, that's key. So that's good. So what was some of that some of that early feedback? What were people saying when? When were they using it? What do they like what they don't like? What were you hearing?
Nicole Haney
Yeah. So people were telling me that they would bulk up when they would come to the farmers market once a week. And they would throw them in their lunch bags to bring with them every single day for lunch, or when they were running errands or after they drop the kids off at school. And they had to rush off to work. And the one thing that they said though, is you know, it would be great if these were a bit more accessible, because I don't always get out to the farmers market or I buy 12. But I eat them all by Wednesday. And it would be great if they were available in like a store that's a bit closer to me that's open seven days a week. So that was kind of one of the things that initially I took into consideration when starting to really expand the business and see it grow.
Eric Janssen
Got it. So one of the first things first piece of feedback that you got, I guess in order was taste is good. The value prop in the early days, because I know, I know we can talk about in a second. But you were at the accelerator slash incubator on Western campus.
Nicole Haney
Yeah.
Eric Janssen
And I know I remember the value proposition workshop. And I remember you coming out with there was something that maybe we may have even written down from in that session. But it's your value prop. That's all over your website now, which is healthy food, great taste, no compromise. So that seemed to resonate with people pretty early on. It's, it's convenient, it's healthy, it tastes good. We're not compromising on anything. So the product was getting there. Then you got the feedback on where to place it. So you needed to have it in additional locations around London. Then what?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, so once we got into some retailers locally, and London
Eric Janssen
and how, how did you
Eric Janssen
convince?
Eric Janssen
And how, how did you convince? Because at that point is still sort of your kitchen? Right?
Nicole Haney
Yeah.
Eric Johnson
your
Eric Janssen
Out of your kitchen, you got a package that is what clear plastic bag at that point.
Nicole Haney
Yes. Yeah, essentially.
Eric Janssen
Did you make a logo?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, I just kind of created it on my computer, Photoshop!
Eric Janssen
Photoshop at yourself. still making one flavor? How many flavors at that point?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, we just had the one flavor.
Eric Janssen
So one flavor, plastic bag, logo you made yourself printing it at home on labels. But feedback was that we like them?
Nicole Haney
Yeah.
Eric Janssen
And we would like them in more places?
Nicole Haney
Yeah.
Eric Janssen
So you can't build a business off of just a farmer's market. So you say Cool, let's go out there and try to find some more places.
Nicole Haney
Exactly.
Eric Janssen
How did you figure out where to put it?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, so initially, I had approached a lot of local retailers, like people that have small local businesses that have a vested interest in seeing the community grow and seeing other entrepreneurs thrive as well. And so I approached them and basically said, you know, the customers that are shopping at the local farmers market are the same customers that are coming here to buy your natural skincare products, or coming here to do yoga. And you would be able to sell these here at your location and you could turn a profit and it would be mutually beneficial, essentially. So talk to them and got my product into some stores and then started sampling to get the product into people's mouths.
Eric Janssen
So don't look now but you just became a salesperson. You were going door to door. Were you nervous for that first, like Do you remember the very first store that you went to and knocked on the door and like, very first one?
Nicole Haney
So nervous, Eric!
Eric Janssen
Do you remember this? What was the store?
Nicole Haney
Oh my gosh, well, it was it was a local store here, natural skincare store. And I had met the owner a couple of times through some business networking events, but I didn't know her very well at the time. And oh, I was so nervous and I was quite awkward. And but she understood where I was coming from because she had done it herself as well, because she had to go out there and promote her business and promote her products. So she knew what, what the vibe was. And she appreciated it
I think
Eric Janssen
Nice, the story is a cool component, right? Like a lot of times people try to pretend that they're bigger than they are. But I think the local angle, I'm a local entrepreneur fairly young, just getting this going it was them willing to help you out become a part of your story as well.
Nicole Haney
Absolutely
Eric Janssen
Yeah. Cool. Okay, so you get into a couple retail stores, then what?
Nicole Haney
Then we start sampling the product. So we want to make sure that people are trying it, it's not just going to be a product sitting on a shelf that collects dust. So we start sampling. And by we, I mean me. And in the early days, I was fortunate enough to get the opportunity to sample at farm boy. So they were doing a local, vendor, outdoor market. And so I went and stood outside one of their stores, along with some other local vendors. And I was sampling my products there. And this was actually some customer feedback that I received kind of early on, that really changed the direction that I was going with my value proposition. Because Initially, I was saying these are a clean energy bar. They're just made with whole food ingredients. But I wasn't really delving into the quality of them, and how great they tasted because for me, the most important thing was the clean ingredients. And that was really something you couldn't find on the market at the time. And so I was sampling the products at farm boy promoting them as clean energy bar, and not really getting a lot of takers. And I thought, well, that's weird. You know, when I when I go to a grocery store, and I see samples, I'm always like all over it. Yes, please give me those samples whatever it is, yeah. And so the next person that said, No, I'm not interested, I asked them why. And she said, you know, I don't really like energy bars, they typically don't taste very good. And so I told her these actually tastes amazing. And I convinced her to try one. And she loved it. And then she purchased some bars for me on the spot. And so that's when I realized that even though the clean energy bar, the whole food ingredients, that might be the most important thing to me. And there is certainly a market of people out there where it is the most important thing. I think there is a much larger market of people out there that are looking for a great tasting energy bar.
Eric Janssen
Because there is no shortage of food. That's good for you.
Nicole Haney
Yep.
Eric Janssen
It's that magic overlap between the two concentric circles that is good for you, but also tastes good.
Nicole Haney
Exactly.
Eric Janssen
Interesting. So feedback again, right, getting it getting it in front of people you didn't you didn't go and buy market research studies and figure out the top selling bars and try to copy those you went to farm boy on their local vendor day, got rejected, don't know how many times and then said screw it. I'm just going to start asking people why they're saying no.
Nicole Haney
Yeah. This seems to be my pattern for market research is try it get rejected, figure out why I'm getting rejected and change.
Eric Janssen
It seems to be working so far. Okay, so you get the feedback that if you tell them and show them that it tastes good, but it's also good for you, that could lead to increased sales. So what did you do with that info.
Nicole Haney
So I felt very confident that now I was going to be able to sell this product and sell it really well. And so of course, strong willed and my nature, I marched off to a bigger market and decided to just take that and run with it. So I approached some retailers in Toronto, did some sales calls in the GTA market. And again, got rejected a few times. And I had actually signed up for a trade show in Toronto as a part of this marketing strategy as a part of this way to expand into that market. And that trade show got cancelled at the last minute. And I had expressed my disappointment in this to the organizer of that event. And she said, Well, if you're really trying to break into the Toronto market, send me some of your product. I actually own a marketing firm. And I'll share it around with my friends and colleagues. And we'll take a taste and we'll see what we can do. So I sent her our bars with our old grassroots packaging. And the feedback that I got from her was that the product tastes great. The quality's amazing. She I guess shared it with some of her chef friends who said like this is a fantastic product. But and I still remember exactly how she said it. She said the packaging does not reflect the quality of the product. And so again, that was feedback that really changed my direction, because I thought there it is, this is the reason that I'm getting rejected in this bigger market.
Eric Janssen
So the message of local small, worked in London in the early days, but as you tried to go and expand into bigger markets, the feedback was Yeah, good product, but you look small. So you needed a look a little bit more professional. So what did you do? Would you do with that feedback?
Nicole Haney
So with that feedback, I decided that we were going to do a complete rebrand, because as I mentioned, I had designed the logo myself, and I was still printing labels on our residential grade printer. And it just, it wasn't working anymore. So I reached out to some local design firms, and ended up working with one specifically who really truly got the vision of what I wanted to do
Eric Janssen
Who to work with. So I was working with Carve, they are fantastic graphic design company, sat down with the owner, Jason and went through some different ideas. And he immediately got the vision and got the direction that I wanted to go in and worked up a fantastic branding suite for us. Awesome. So interesting. Those are fun things to do early days, right, like figuring out the logo and the perfect packaging and all these other things. They're fun to do. They're also, I don't want to say easy, but they're certainly easier to do than going out and trying to do cold calls, right? Like it's easier for you to sit behind your desk or getting a coffee shop for two days and play with Photoshop versus go make cold calls. So you didn't change your brand. Until you heard the direct feedback from a customer that said, your brand is preventing you from playing in this bigger market. You didn't say we need to do a rebrand because Nicole feels like we need to do a rebrand It was like a customer told you this is the reason that you are not able to enter this market.
Nicole Haney
Yep, for sure if it in the early days, if it wasn't necessary, I didn't do it. Because as an entrepreneur, especially when you're first starting out, your time is incredibly valuable. And it makes all the difference to just get out there and get started and hit the market. And so if it wasn't necessary, we didn't do it. So at each stage in the game, as soon as we needed to make a change, we made the change. But not until then.
Eric Janssen
Interesting is it's so simple, but so important. I think people get caught up in thinking that they need to do everything need to make these changes, but you're smart to do it only when a customer told you to do it. So okay, so you made the bridge, you made the rebrand you made the changes the new packages. Brilliant, I think I don't even I don't remember your initial, I didn't personally try your initial or see your initial packaging live in the flesh. But I, I am a happy customer. So I get these sent to my house. I think right now I'm currently your only subscription customer. I like the product so much. Call me lazy, but I didn't want to come pick it up myself. So I worked out a deal with Nicole so that they're delivered to my house on a monthly basis. And so the new packaging that I'm looking at right here is is beautiful. It's brilliant. It's fairly simple, right? White background clean logo. So then what you you've got this new package, you go back to that customer and where to go from there.
Nicole Haney
Yeah, absolutely. So went back to a bunch of different customers that had previously rejected us based on the old packaging, and was able to successfully secure them now with this new packaging. Because now the products can sit on a shelf, and it attracts people eyes, sitting next to other commercially branded products. So it looks apart, it tastes the part now and it certainly is walking the walk. So yet we were able to secure a number of retailers in Toronto, which was huge for us. As a part of again, this marketing strategy, we went back and did another trade show in Toronto, this one wasn't cancelled. And it was actually one of the largest health and wellness shows that is in Toronto. And at that show. People were going crazy over the product, which was such a cool feeling.
Eric Janssen
You were sampling again.
Nicole Haney
Yeah, yeah, we were sampling and selling them by the case. So it was it was a very cool weekend a very cool show. And at that show, we actually got approached by a distributor who could see that customers were going crazy over this product. And so they approached us to to have a meeting and have a conversation.
Eric Janssen
Wow. Did you ever get discouraged because it is a pretty like if I go I was at the grocery store this morning. And there's a fairly big health food section in the grocery store. There's a lot of competing products out there. There's a lot aisles of them. Yep. And yet, here I am with your product I might ask. So did that not ever deter you?
Nicole Haney
Absolutely. It's energy bar market is a very crowded space. And as I mentioned before, sales did not come naturally to me. So even now to this day. Sales is a very challenging thing for me because when I do get that rejection which is sure to come sometimes, I do take it quite personally. And I know I shouldn't. And I know that sales 101. But it's very difficult when it is your product and you've poured your heart and soul into it to to not take it personally. But to overcome that you just keep kind of going out and knocking on doors. And then when you get that, Yes. It is so exhilarating that it just makes up for all the nose.
Eric Janssen
So you've got this personality? That's don't take no for an answer. But honestly, I see a lot of proposals for different projects, right. And, even this year, there's a couple health food related things. And my immediate thought on, it is crowded space, crowded space, tough to get into. So maybe I'm asking the same question in a different way. Like, did you ever walk through the grocery store, see all these bars in the early days and just say to yourself, like, how do I compete with the cliffs and the you know, all the other big brand names out there?
Nicole Haney
I absolutely did. It is. It is intimidating. And it is overwhelming to be entering a highly saturated market. But I knew I had a better product. And I think that if you have that conviction, and you have that belief in yourself, that you can move mountains, and you can really do some amazing things even in a crowded space.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, so it wasn't it wasn't bs for you. It wasn't spin you you truly believe that you had a better product? Yes. And then more people needed to sample it. Okay, so you maybe give me an update on where things are now. How are things going? We haven't talked about the the bakery a lot, the big shop. So maybe give us an update? Where? Where's Boho bars at today? Where's the bakery? Are you still working out of your kitchen?How are you doing?
Nicole Haney
Yeah, for sure. Well, not working out of the kitchen anymore, thankfully, because I don't think my kitchen could handle it. But yeah, we have 1700 square foot facility here in London. And we're kind of bursting at the seams a little bit at this point. But we're making it work. And yeah, so the bakery side of things, we decided to tighten it up and scale back on the products a little bit to really just focus on the products that people love, and people are buying. So we do still have brownies and cookies and stuff like that. But they're more of a feature product every once in a while. The star of the show for the bakery is the doughnuts, because people will buy those by the six pack or the dozen and, and absolutely loved them. So we're keeping that very local here in London at the western fare farmers market, or the energy bar side of things. We are currently distributing ourselves across Ontario and Prince Edward Island. So about 100 retailers in two provinces. And we've got a couple distributors that are knocking on our door and some larger retailers as well. So we have a plan to be across Canada within the next year or so.
Eric Janssen
Wow.
Eric Janssen
Wow. Awesome. So a few things that we skipped over in the beginning, the role that the incubator or accelerator played in your growth, doesn't need to be a shameless plug for the western accelerator or incubator. But I know that was part of your journey. So maybe comment on how it helped if it helped.
Nicole Haney
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm gonna shameless plug it because it was a phenomenal business program. The best. And I started the business that I have without a business plan. I didn't even know what a business plan was. I, as you mentioned, I didn't do any market research, I didn't have market validation. I literally just started. And so I knew how to make products. The Western accelerator program taught me how to run my business. And so that is that's huge. I mean, that is a an enormous part of the success that I've had within the past year, for sure.
Eric Janssen
Awesome. That's great, great, great to hear that. When we opened the doors on it back in the early 2000s. The idea was that there was no place on campus for people to go and start to work on ideas or turn ideas into companies. So it's nice to start to see here's the you know, full circle some of the big wins that are coming out of it. So I think that you're one of the next big wins. So keep going anything else going on? That's new and exciting that you're excited for the next chapter here? I mean, expansion across Canada is big. Anything else going on that you're excited to talk about?
Eric Janssen
Yeah,
Nicole Haney
Yeah, we've got, we've got kind of four major partners that we're rolling out in the next two weeks to two months. And so it looks like we're gonna probably double in our volume and in our sales before the hears out, which is pretty intense, a lot of challenges that we're going to be facing with the growth but a lot of exciting opportunities coming down the pipeline. So yeah, stay tuned.
Eric Janssen
Great. A couple rapid fire things for you here. So, a couple questions I ask , where do you do your best thinking?
Nicole Haney
I do my best thinking while I'm running.
Eric Janssen
Still running, this is good boho bars fueling the running still.
Nicole Haney
Absolutely. And you know, I'm not gonna lie I do I eat them after a run. And when I have to kind of keep working and keep going after I'm finished my run, I grab a Boho bar for sure.
Eric Janssen
Awesome. It will be actually dinner for me today. After this, we're going to head into class together. So I'm not going to have time to grab a full meal. So it's going to be dinner for me. When do you run usually?
Nicole Haney
Usually run kind of late afternoon. So the the girls at the bakery finish up around four, I usually go home, go for a run, and then kind of get back to work after that.
Eric Janssen
Nice I read, I don't know if it was a Paul Graham particle or a Steve Blank article. Early days at the accelerators. They talk about the three things that founders should be doing building product, talking to customers and exercising. So it sounds like sounds like you're doing that sounds like you're you're maybe not doing the actual baking yourself anymore all the time? Do you have good burn marks on your fingers still? So, so building product or thinking about product, talking to customers or selling and then good to hear you're still exercising? Advice you might give your 20 year old self.
Nicole Haney
Don't be so afraid of everything. Take risks, take on new challenges, explore the world, expand your horizons and just go for it. Take swings.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, there's a bunch of students that say, third, fourth year right now trying to figure out what they should do. Some contemplating, you know, working in a big company, some contemplating maybe tackling an idea. Which way would you nudge them at this point?
Nicole Haney
Tackle that idea!
Eric Janssen
What do you have to lose?
Nicole Haney
What do you have to lose! You're never gonna know if you don't try it. And you can always go the other route after
Eric Janssen
Absolutely nothing to lose at this point. And think about from an entrepreneurs perspective, I had this conversation last week with a couple guests that we had in Would you rather hire the person who's put in two years at a corporate job and has great reviews? Or would you hire the person that spent the last two years pursuing something that they were passionate about and tried to sell, didn't work and fell on their face? Which one would you hire?
Nicole Haney
The passionate person! For sure!
Eric Janssen
Yeah. The fall on your face, people are worried that that's going to look like a blemish. But the story you get to tell afterwards is just so much more incredible than that a corporate story. So there's another data point, anything you wish you would have learned sooner?
Nicole Haney
I think that would probably be the same answer, as I told my 20 year old self, take more risks, take more risks, try more things, don't be afraid to just get out there and try it. Because the feedback you get in real time is the best feedback you're gonna get.
Eric Janssen
And any skills that you wish you had in your tool belt that you would have had from the very beginning?
Nicole Haney
I would say maybe a little bit more like business background and business knowledge would have helped in the early days, because there was a lot of fumbling in the early days trying to figure out how do I run a business? How do I how do I do this? So if I had had kind of the the opportunity to let's say get an education at Ivey, I think that would have been incredibly valuable to to starting my business for sure.
Eric Janssen
Sometimes that naivety is helps though, right? Like maybe you would have overthought it and done the business plan and done the market research instead versus actually getting out there and talking to people.
Nicole Haney
Yeah that's absolutely true.
Eric Janssen
Maybe you would have over engineered it.
Eric Janssen
Anything that you're uniquely good at, like your superpower?
Nicole Haney
Ah, my superpower is singing 70s music. Oh, that was super embarrassing.
Eric Janssen
That's a good one. Does that has that helped you in your business? I'm sure it has at some point. That's what closes the major deals, saying 70s tunes.
Nicole Haney
Yes, charming people with my knowledge of 70s music
Eric Janssen
Yeah, I like it. Anything from a book, reading your business perspective, anything that you are, like, uniquely good at that you've really sharpen the pencil on that you're really good at.
Nicole Haney
Believe it or not, I would have to say that I've gotten quite good at doing sales. Even though it's not something that I particularly enjoy. I think maybe perhaps because I don't enjoy it. I think that I recognize that and I'm pushing myself kind of as hard as I can to get really good at it so that eventually someday I might enjoy it.
Eric Janssen
What makes you good at selling?
Nicole Haney
I think having conversations instead of trying to sell a product. So talking to whether it's a customer, a retailer or a distributor just talking to them about what their business looks like and what their needs are and then being able to talk to them about how I can fill that gap.
Eric Janssen
Awesome. actually listening to people having real conversations with people, real conversations. Absolutely cool. Anything else that you wish I would have asked?
Nicole Haney
No, I think we've covered a lot of a lot of material.
Eric Janssen
Awesome. Well, it's been good having you on and hearing your story. We got to spend a bunch of time on feedback and how you work that into each step of the process. So it's clear that a lot of the feedback that you got really changed the trajectory of your business.
Nicole Haney
It did. Absolutely.
Eric Janssen
So that's, that's really good to hear. Thank you for taking the time and hanging out with us. We're gonna go do a session with a few classes now, but it's been really good sitting down. Thank you, you too.
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