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The demand for sustainable products has never been greater – and perhaps, never been more necessary. From climate change to the creation of vast trash islands, more and more consumers are realizing that real change is needed to protect and preserve our environment.
For Jayme Jenkins, HBA ’07, and Jessica Stevenson, HBA ’07, real change wasn’t just about making a donation or changing their buying habits. Leaving their established careers, Jenkins and Stevenson are reimagining the beauty industry with Everist, which provides concentrated forms of traditional hair and body care products, reducing the industry’s typical reliance on plastic bottles and packaging.
Since its launch, Everist has been featured by Chatelaine, Cosmopolitan, Elle, and Men’s Health, and was voted by Vogue and Time magazine as one of the best innovative products of 2021.
Jenkins and Stevenson join Eric Janssen to discuss their passion for problem-solving, being the change they want to see, and how their careers in sales and marketing helped lay the runway to launch their own brand.
The Entrepreneur Podcast is sponsored by Connie Clerici, QS ’08, and Closing the Gap Healthcare Group, Inc.
Transcript
Jayme Jenkins
And I think we really believe that for eco to become mainstream, which is our mission, right? We want to make eco for everybody it should be it has to be at this point, eco needs to be better than the status quo. And that's really our goal with Everist is delivering products that are delightfully better than what you're currently used to using, but just happened to be, you know, as close to zero waste as possible.
Eric Morse
You're listening to the entrepreneur podcast from the Western Morrison Institute for Entrepreneurship, powered by Ivey. In this series, Ivey entrepreneur and Ivey faculty member Eric Janssen will anchor the session.
Introduction with Eric Janssen
This is the perfect Cinderella story of two entrepreneurs working in corporate jobs, identifying a massive problem to be solved in a huge market and leaving their stable well-paying jobs to solve it. Jamie Jenkins and Jessica Stevenson started Everist just a year ago and are poised to change the beauty industry entirely. A completely new blue sky innovation Everis waterless shampoo and body wash formulas aren't just better for the planet, they're actually a better product. The company's already been featured in Forbes and been called one of times best inventions of 2021. They've been featured in shadow lane, Cosmopolitan, Elle, and Men's Health. In this episode, we talk about their journey and founding a direct to consumer company, what to focus on in the early stages, the value of sales and the importance of starting with the problem and giving yourself time to come to the right solution. Finally, we talked about starting a business and raising a family at the same time, what trade-offs to expect and how to make it all work. I started using this product just a few weeks ago, and I'm already hooked. This is the next big name and beauty and I'm excited to share a sneak peek into their growth story. Enjoy my conversation with Jamie and Jessica from Everist. All right, I'm here with Jamie Jenkins and Jessica Stevenson from Everist. Ladies. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Jayme Jenkins
Nice to be here.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, good to have you. I'm excited to talk about your journey. It's a actually fairly typical one for a lot of ivy entrepreneurs, which is sort of the corporate wrote turn entrepreneur after accumulating a few few good years or a decade potentially good work experience. And I want to get to that story. I want to start though with your background in corporate. I know Jayme, you specifically actually started in I think sales at p&g. Can you talk about what is? Why did you choose sales as an early career option? And why was that a good launching off point for you?
Jayme Jenkins
That's a great question, Eric. I think everybody should do sales at some point in their career. And I feel like starting with sales is like an excellent place to begin. So I took the sales job because I wanted to work for Procter and Gamble, I thought it was an incredible place to kind of learn the ropes of marketing. And that's the role they were hiring for. So I did a summer internship with P&G between my third and fourth year Ivey and then they hired me on for full time after I graduated. And I did about a year and a half of pharmaceutical sales. So visiting doctors offices talking to their staff. It was a tough gig. But I feel like you learned so much about you know, confidence and resilience and so many skills that are applicable later in your career that I think it was a great experience.
Eric Janssen
So a lot of students maybe don't see the path. But you started in you started in a few different sales roles, built that thick skin learn how to pitch a value prop and then where did you go from your first sales roles.
Jayme Jenkins
So I was in the field for a while I had some good kind of traction there. So they actually moved me into the office at p&g to be a trainer, a sales trainer. And that was actually a really interesting role. I don't talk about it a lot because we tend to focus more on like our beauty experience. But it's really interesting because we did a lot of kind of deep dives in, you know, how to persuade and influence people how people think how people make decisions about what products to choose. And I got kind of all of the basics of the p&g kind of sales and marketing training, which you know, they're really exceptional at so that was a really fun role, you know, training p&g, Salesforce. And then eventually, I moved to more of a marketing role with Procter and Gamble.
Eric Janssen
And Jessica, you... I don't think you started in sales, you were more on the marketing side, but also in beauty. Correct?
Jessica Stevenson
Actually, I started my career in foods. So before making the switch over to beauty. So after IV, I started at General Mills. And I first started actually on stacks division. So I was launching new granola bars, as my first launches was actually the original Fiber One bars. And it's just a really great experience moving from innovation to you know, working on seeing Nature Valley and then later Cheerios and Pillsbury, you know, doing traditional brand building, it was just a really great trading environment. I think in an environment like that, too. You really are the general manager of your brand, you own everything. And I think from an event from an entrepreneurship perspective, you really get to kind of oversee and manage that whole kind of hub and spoke model. So it's a really great experience to kind of lead into this world we're now in.
Eric Janssen
So typically, a lot of students learning entrepreneurship will come to me and talk about wanting to identify the right opportunity or come up with the right idea. And we push them to really to think about the problem, like what's really the problem that you're solving, and from my understanding of your story, that is exactly how you came to the solution ultimately, that you arrived at. So I'd love you to spend maybe just a few minutes talking about what is the problem that you recognized in your previous role and how how did you think about the solution?
Jayme Jenkins
the most jarring stat, I think that kind of jumped out at us is the beauty industry produces 77 billion units of plastic packaging every year. And I think Jess, and I really wanted to explore if there was a way to do beauty without single-use plastic, that was kind of the starting point in terms of what the problem was. And I think, you know, another, that's kind of the world problem. One thing that we come back to sometimes is there's a world problem. And there's also, you know, personal problems as well. What's the problem for the customer? And I think the problem for the customer that we had identified in our own lives is no, there wasn't any eco options that we felt were high enough performance or convenient enough to help us make that switch to, you know, more sustainable products. And we felt there was a need for something that would be, you know, close to what people were used to, and their expectations for, you know, high-performance beauty product, which is what led us to create Everist.
Eric Janssen
You didn't jump immediately to waterless hair care products, it was like, Okay, there's this this problem of the way that the entire industry operates today. Let's start with how do we solve that. And your solution, ultimately, from my understanding of the product is, there's so much water built into the products today that they're deep requires bigger packaging, and you're actually paying to ship around larger plastic packages. So if we can just concentrate it down, make a better product and concentrate it down, package it up in an eco-friendly way. Ultimately, the solution that you arrived on for the problem?
Jessica Stevenson
Yes, exactly. But we did explore many different alternatives before we got the problem. And I think because we expose different turns allowed us to be much more open-minded, to then really narrow in on the idea we end up having, and I think if we didn't start with that problem, we may never have got to the same solution. Because there really was a lot of trials, a lot of pivots along the way. And I think just being open-minded, allowed us to keep pivoting until we found something that we thought met our criteria, which was that performance, convenience, environmental credentials and scalability. So that was all important.
Eric Janssen
This is the interesting transition from doing having a full-time corporate job and jumping into entrepreneurship sort of overtime is that I think you actually get to spend more time sitting with the problem. There's not like, you know, if, for example, someone just graduated, and it's like, there's no income, the runway is running out, they don't have a support network, or a partner or whomever that they can lean on a little bit. It's like, I need to have an income. This is the solution we're sprinting.
Jayme Jenkins
Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's great for that reason of having, you know, some time to explore, I think there's other challenges in the sense of like, you, you have are used to having this team, and you know, kind of what good looks like and then to start on your own, you know, trying to do it all and knowing, I think when we look at some of our earlier versions of the product and sharing them with our, you know, close network, and knowing, you know, this isn't where we're going to end, but this is kind of our first starting point, I think that piece can be challenging, but it's all in evolution. And I think just you know, starting from the beginning can be tricky. But knowing that I think you'll get there in time was helpful.
Jessica Stevenson
No, say definitely. I think having that corporate career first, it definitely gave us, you know, the frameworks and the experience, I think we were able to tackle a problem differently just with them. You know, just a very analytical mindset, just being able to really understand the beauty industry, knowing how it works was really helpful. And so I think having that experience first before jumping ship was just very useful.
Eric Janssen
So your decade plus into your careers hitting your stride, and then decided to jump off of that path and do something maybe crazy, maybe crazy, but it seems to be working out so far. So can you talk about that decision point of like, when did you decide that this was the right opportunity for you to jump into?
Jayme Jenkins
Totally. Well, after P&G, I did about a decade at L'Oreal. So I really learned kind of the ropes of the beauty industry. And just can speak to her experience at Revlon and nude by nature as well. But we eventually made our way into beauty. And I think we love that industry, you know, worked a lot on different global brands for them. And, you know, overall had such a, you know, great experience and learn so much about marketing and product development. But I think you know, a couple of years ago, just my you know, who our longtime friends were talking just about the changes that we were seeing in the industry and specifically a change in kind of the consumer awareness and demand for you know, more sustainable solutions, particularly in terms of an awareness of the plastic waste crisis. I think it all started around, you know, 2018 you know, trying to stop taking a lot of North America's garbage there was all of a sudden In a lot of awareness around plastic waste, and I think we really recognize that, you know, the beauty industry was a really big contributor to this. And there was a really big problem there that needed some creative solutions. And we really started with, you know, that question, which is, you know, how, how could you even do a beauty company without single-use plastic? What could that even look like? Because, you know, the whole model is built, you know, a certain way. And I think we did try to make some changes within the companies we were at. And, you know, it's harder for these big companies to change quickly, because they have kind of their established models. But we really did start to see those, you know, come back over and over again, and realize it was not necessarily a trend, but I think the way that the beauty industry and the consumer, you know, product industry, in general needed to go in the future, and we really wanted to be part of that solution.
Eric Janssen
And so how you said, you started sort of working on it internally, but sounded like maybe that they just weren't gonna, this change will potentially eventually happen, but just wasn't going to happen in the short term. And that was your frustration with it. Like, why did why did you leave? Ultimately, I guess, is my question.
Jayme Jenkins
The change, I think, wasn't happening fast enough for us. So I think, you know, there's a lot of great initiatives that these companies are doing, since we've left, I think they've rolled out some wonderful ones. And, you know, everybody's moving in the right direction. But I think, you know, Jess, and I really recognize that as a as a, you know, consumer population, we need to be moving faster, and we need to be making more dramatic changes.
Jessica Stevenson
Yeah. And I think there's just the luxury of being able to start on your own, we actually could build it from the ground up, and allowed us to make some choices that I think are a little more difficult to make, once you're an established organization. So as we commend people for, you know, obviously, large organizations making small changes that can really add up, but I think we really just wanted to do something more transformational, and also hopefully inspire some bigger change that we'd love to see in the industry.
Eric Janssen
So let's get into the details of how to quit, because I talked to some guests, Craig Follett, who I think is a friend of yours about how he de-risked he was at a big consulting firm and how he de-risked the decision to leave. I think the perception is that sometimes people, the idea strikes them in the middle of the night, and they're at work the next morning, and they quit. And two weeks later, you know, they're funding this company with millions of dollars and off to the races, the reality is usually much different. I'd love to know your process of, like, you know, from the time that you recognized, oh, this is, seems to be an interesting opportunity or problem that we want to try to solve, to actually leaving your full-time job and getting the company going. Fill in the blanks there for me,
Jayme Jenkins
Yeah, that was a really long period of time, like I would say, probably like 18 months from the problem being maybe a year from the problem being recognized to feeling like we had something that, you know, it was worth leaving our corporate jobs for executive roles for more than salaries, stability, all of that stuff. So I think, you know, we started again, with this, this question of like, how do you do beauty without single-use plastic, but we spent, you know, a long time doing explorations of what that could look like. So we looked at a whole bunch of different business models, and, you know, crunched a lot of numbers on what they could look like, talk to, you know, friends and family for their feedback, we looked at things like no retail or Fillory. stores. We looked at milkman type of models.
Eric Janssen
Jayme, sorry, when did you do that? You had a full-time job. So it was this like, evenings weekends, like, well, you have you come together and brainstorm like, when did when did it happen?
Jayme Jenkins
It was all it was always on, like evenings and weekends, I think it was it was more of like a passion project. At that point. I think that's, you know, when you need to be, you know, doing this stuff, in addition to your very demanding corporate career, and I think we really, both really loved our jobs and respected them, and we're fully committed to them as well. So I think you have, it has to be something that is also an interest, because you will be spending your free time exploring it. And that's really, you know, how it worked out for us. And we, you know, we're just really curious on like, how do we, you know, how do we solve this problem, we were hearing more and more information, not just about plastic waste, but also, you know, the health impacts of microplastics in our water systems and, you know, thinking more about, you know, the real change that needed to happen. So, lots of exploration, lots of the ideas that we explored and dismissed actually had have come to market now, which is really cool. I think it just shows like there's so much there's so much interest in you know, making change in these consumer industries, which is wonderful. But it took us a while before we felt like we had an idea that was really you know, really had legs which was this concept of waterless which we saw first in the home cleaning industry. You know, there's all these cool brands that were popping up ones like blue land and supernatural that, you know, were built on the insight that cleaning products for your home are mostly water they're in single-use Plastic bottles. So we're paying to ship plastic bottles of water around the world, basically. And we thought, Hmm, that's really interesting. We're pretty much doing the same thing in beauty as well, there has to be an application here. So I think once we kind of drilled into that one, we really knew we had something different. And you know, it hadn't been done before, with this waterless paste concept, and we thought we had an opportunity to be the first.
Eric Janssen
How did you know the other ones? Were not? I mean, I guess they ultimately were successful for other companies. But how did you know you work through a bunch of different potential solutions to the problem? What was your criteria? Or how did you know that? That was not the right one for you?
Jessica Stevenson
Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I think for a few different reasons, as Jayme was saying, I think we definitely crunched some numbers. And I think on some of them, they were not profitable in the way that we had modelled it. Now, I think there are some interesting solutions, one of them being the milkman model. However, you know, TerraCycle loop is actually doing something super cool. But they've also partnered up with some very big organizations, I think, to make that, you know, model work. And it's amazing. There's been some other ones that we dismiss maybe in, you know, retail in terms of scalability. It also turns out with a pandemic, that was probably a good decision. And we're lucky that we're able to kind of continue on this entrepreneur journey during a pandemic. And I think the other big one is just performance. I think, you know, coming from beauty, I think we really know that as much as we want to see change when it comes from, you know, an environmental standpoint and a clean ingredients standpoint. In the end, beauty is about performance, it needs to work. And so some of the things we tried in terms of, you know, mixing at home with water, just having the consistency, not having the sensorial experience that maybe you would come to expect from the product. We're also just asking people to do these extra steps aren't as convenient. I think those are just really important factors to make sure that you can have that adaption we're looking at I think, for us, we really were trying to find a product that yes, it was transformational. And yes, there is some learning curve. But really, how do we get it as close as possible to what people are already used to. So it's a minimal change, almost like once you get used to you actually see it, we call it an eco upgrade, and actually adds value to your routine and something that's easier to adopt and become a habit, they're really trying to, you know, take them to this other place. And you know, we see often say that Everist is for people who want to love shampoo bars, but just can't just can't get on board. And so this is sort of that intermediary space that can really you know, you can love you can have great hair, but you also can be doing something great for the environment.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, it's interesting, you're starting to see that tipping point across a lot of these more sustainable businesses, right, where, like, the early electric cars were like, wow, they're not, they're not actually that great looking. But I know that it's good for the environment. So there's these early adopters who are going to jump on board with them. And now as there's more and more companies that are companies that are becoming well known to consumers, it's like actually, these, these cars, both are good for the environment. And our I think better products, sounds like similar thing is happening...
It absolutely has to be better. That was our kind of benchmark. And I think it's helpful, like, it's helpful. Sometimes, you know, you can do it without this being the case. But for us, it's helpful when you are the customer and you're looking really understand the product that you're looking for. And, you know, we wanted the performance we wanted the convenience like those were couldn't compromise on those. And I think we really believe that for eco to become mainstream, which is our mission, right? We want to make eco for everybody it should be it has to be at this point, eco needs to be better than the status quo. And that's really our goal with Everist is delivering products that are delightfully better than what you're currently used to using, but just happened to be, you know, as close to zero waste as possible.
Eric Janssen
In what order did you get these things going? So there's obviously this is a direct to consumer brand, I think there's a few things that you probably needed to really nail to get this right.
Jayme Jenkins
We slowly started with product and kind of back to that theme of it being an evolution and a journey. And it took a long time before we got the product. Right. So as Jess had mentioned, once we knew waterless is what we wanted to do, we had explored a whole bunch of different ways to do it. So things like...
Eric Janssen
Jamie... let's... sorry. Let's explain like, what is the product today you we mentioned waterless a few times, like what is Everist?
Jayme Jenkins
Everist is a brand new beauty company for eco optimists. And we've just launched with our very first patent-pending products. We've launched the first waterless concentrated shampoo, conditioner and body wash. So traditional shampoos body washes, conditioners are like 7080 90% water, so we've taken out the water concentrated them down into 100 mil aluminum tubes. So you pretty much take a tiny strip of this paste on your hand in the shower. You activate it with the water in your shower that you're already used to use and you get a beautiful, sensorial clean shampoo, conditioner or body wash experience.
Eric Janssen
This is gonna be different for me when I try it for the first time, I just placed my order, because I'm probably like most people used to like filling my whole palm with shampoo. So if this is a concentrate, you're saying I actually use far less of the product.
Jayme Jenkins
Yes, exactly, use about a third of what you would normally use for shampoo, but you get the performance, you know, in terms of lather in terms of scent is far exceeds we would say, the traditional shampoo experience.
Jessica Stevenson
And that was actually very difficult to achieve to just to kind of go with a little more and this is a real experience. So the product is we call it it gets hard to clean beauty. So it's sulfate free. So usually, it's very hard to get that lather experience. You know, with a salt free product, we're also plant based vegan, etc. Very, very clean formulas, and of course, synthetic fragrance free. So to get that scent, we use a blend of essential oils. So again, just really trying to be clean. When we think of, you know, environmental impact, we really have three pillars that we look at. So one, you know, sometimes people think about is packaging, and we can go through that. But packaging definitely as a part of making sure we think of circularity and etc, and having single use plastic free. But we also think about ingredients and what goes down the drain and into our water systems. So mate said making sure those are plant based, very clean. And then we also think about our business practices overall. So in terms of being a 1%, for the planet member being a climate neutral, not just in shipping, but our whole supply chain. So really trying to think about it from a 360 perspective. And then the end really try and do the heavy lifting on RN, so that the customer can just enjoy, you know, having great hair, and just feeling good about that purchase. We just want to make eco easier.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, that's great. So let's, I want to come back to how did you like early testing? Is this like in your home in your bath? Like where are you putting together these early concoctions.
Jayme Jenkins
So we knew we needed a chemist, so that was kind of the first partner that we needed to bring on board. So we did a lot of meetings and eventually landed on, you know, the right fit in terms of a contract manufacturer, which is how pretty much all beauty products are made more or less with the chemistry team in house. So we worked with them for months on different formulas. And it evolved from you know, mix at home to exploring powders to exploring a bunch of different options to the pace concept. And then when we got the pace concept, we spent, you know, many more months refining it to get the right texture to be, you know, soft enough to work with the aluminum tubes that we're using, because we're single use plastic free to get the performance, the stability. They do all of that work in house. So yeah, that was kind of the journey, the product piece came first to answer your question before, you know, the branding came second. But I think really getting the product to a place that we felt we would be happy with which took hundreds of versions, it was very, very complicated. And you know, first time it's been done. So there's lots of research involved. And then once we had that, then we kind of set up the rest of the business.
Eric Janssen
And for those early tests, you were self-funding it? Or did you raise any money? Like how did you get this initial thing off the ground?
Jessica Stevenson
Yeah, so at that point in time, we were self-funded. So that was really just more on the r&d side and the development side, we were lucky in terms of you know, want to talk a little bit about funding. We did network, actually, in the fall of 2019. And this is kind of early on in our discoveries that we're working on product development, did not have a formal, you know, business plan at this point in time, but definitely had lots of ideas. And we actually found some great early investors through your angels group that we sort of fell into really clicked at sort of a Christmas party. And we actually pulled together our business plan to talk to them in January of 2020. And they just really loved where we were headed and really just believe we were onto something and helped us raise a small seed round that you can think about the timing here. It's quite interesting, because we're talking January, February, oh, eight March pandemic. So obviously, that's was pretty surprising. So, you know, we were lucky that we're able to keep those initial investors, we did kind of extend the round into August of 2020. Just to close, but we actually oversubscribed the round. So again, small round, but definitely gave us some funds to be able to kind of continue on our development journey but also to your other question around brand building really just start developing with that brand. And that really was important to us. I mean, back to the thing about making eco for the mainstream having a brand that's cool and inviting and just really an upgrade that was super important. So we went on a whole brand journey for both our backgrounds are in brand building. So we yeah, we went through and had a great agency partner that helped us build that out. And, yeah, and for us to think the other part of the brand was important was actually being gender-neutral. So we really spent a lot of time trying to make sure that it was, you know, bright and cheerful, we call to brand for equal optimist, we didn't want to have the traditional kind of granola and, you know, the greens and the, the beige is in the weight. Room, we really want to have that optimism comes through in the brand, but do it in this gender-neutral way that really brought everyone you know, into the fold. And so that was a was a fun journey to get there. But we think we've, we've practised for now obviously, I think there's more work we can continue to do. And I think now just talking to our community and learning from them, it's very helpful.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, such a critical piece in these B2C brands, right? Like the you can't, we talk about minimum viable product, which, of course, is important, but I think when you're launching, do you see, the brand needs to be good, like, you need to have thought through that brand, and probably made that investment in the brand from day one. So just order of operations here. Recognize the problem through your core corporate jobs, realize that the solution wasn't pending, at least not in the short term from these big companies. So decided to go off and do it on your own. experimented on your free time with different potential solutions, love that you actually talked about or thought through the maybe not the business plan, but business model early on, just like let me run some numbers, ooh, this solution won't work. Even if it's the right solution at that it doesn't make sense commercially. So that helped you cut out some of the options, funded it yourself, for the product development. And then once you had a product that you were comfortable with, that's when you raise the money.
Jessica Stevenson
Actually, we had some early samples, but it wasn't our final product. So I think, you know, having the idea having something to show for it, even if it's not the actual final one. In our case, you know, finding those that right fit of investor who really saw, you know, just behind the curtain of like this is this is something they hear, they really believe I think in us too, and in the long term. So we actually with that very minimum viable product, because it wasn't even the final format. They invested to help us bring that to life, because as you said, there was quite a bit of steps that need to be done after that, to get us to market which we actually launched in February of 2021. So...
Eric Janssen
This year, yeah. Awesome. So then, then you can with the money that you raised in those early days, then you can think about scaling up the product and building out investing and building up the brand properly. Is that right?
Jayme Jenkins
Yeah, it helps fun, like our brand development, our initial inventory. There's a lot of you know, doing things ethically and sustainably cost a lot of money. So, you know, everything is produced locally in Canada, our tubes are sourced from Ontario, and they're aluminum tubes. So the minimum and their direct printed, so like minimums for those are really high. And so lots of things, lots of reasons that we needed a little bit of initial capital to get started there.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, makes sense. Let's talk about launch for a second. You've got a ton of press from, most recently, time, one of times best innovations or inventions in 2021, you've been covered in Vogue, Chatelaine, Cosmo, ELLE, Men's Health, how did you get that coverage?
Jayme Jenkins
A PR agency, our partners, people always ask, how are you doing it? And I think, you know, it's a matter of knowing where you want to focus in the beginning. So we are, you know, I think there's ways to do it on your own. And Jess, and I have that background. And I think because the product is so innovative, we could have made some good waves, ourselves. However, it was really important for us when we launched to make sure that, you know, we got the word out of the product as being kind of our innovation first to market, we wanted to make a big splash. So PR was really our big marketing investment for launch. And, you know, we still were scars, kind of in scrappy entrepreneurial mode, we have partners that we work with that are, you know, ex-colleagues from L'Oreal that are kind of freelance and then started to run agency. They're wonderful partners, and there's a US partner as well. So there's actually two freelancers that we worked with that have really kind of led the charge on that one. But it was a big, you know, it was still an investment for us. And it was a big focus for us with our launch to make sure we you know, created the news that you know, Everist was here and it was the first to market concept.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, and it's not there's actually substance it is a differentiated and better product. So the story like it's not a story of a me too product or a different you know, same product, different packaging. I think it's a story that has legs because it actually you put the time into developing something that truly is different than what else is out there.
Jayme Jenkins
You can hire the best PR agency, but if your product is boring won't matter. I think you really need to have a story to tell and that was really important. less when creating the product?
Eric Janssen
Yeah. So can you talk through the some of the things that, again, lets your experience here and direct to consumer companies? What are the things that you did in house and thought, you know, we, we want to own this, we want control over it, this is what we're going to spend most of our time on versus things that you lean on partners for not gonna say, outsource, because you're still involved, but things that you lean on partners for more than doing yourself?
Jessica Stevenson
Yeah, I think, you know, I would say our model has been sort of like, start small with some like freelance partners and scale, I would say that we've been pretty heavily involved in each of those pieces. So let's say we brought on agency to help with the brand building, we were very much involved the whole way and made sure we found partners that were good with that. And let us you know, be part of it. You know, same with, you know, there's PR, for instance, developing our website, of course, we needed a developer to help us with the website. But myself, you know, I dug in and learned a lot of things of how to set up a Shopify site. And Jamie did a lot the branding and make sure all it so I think every word of coffee on every word of coffee. So I would say like, definitely, I would say that blended between being scrappy, and being in everything, I also really think there's something to understanding everything yourself, from at least a baseline perspective before you kind of outsource it. So I think, from us being in our corporate jobs, and you know, being marketing directors, and general managers, I think, you know, we got at a higher level, we had teams that were doing thing, and I think taking a step back and actually rolling up your sleeves, and doing things and getting in there, it was really, really helpful, especially beginning. And then of course, as we scale, you can't do everything. And so finding where you know, our strengths are, and then finding people who really compliment us. And I think, you know, we really lean into, you know, the gig economy and amazing freelancers, whose support in different areas of the business. And then of course, we're trying to grow the team as well. So we're currently a team of five. And we would love to continue to love that team.
Eric Janssen
So what would you say? Looking back now, how far in Are you on working on this full time? I guess there's working on it full time. And then actually product launch? So product launched in February of 21. So less than a year old? Yep. But there's a bunch of homework before that. So maybe you've been on this full time for how long now?
Jessica Stevenson
So fall of 2019?
Jayme Jenkins
Yeah, two years now.
Eric Janssen
Two years. So your tears in looking back on your journey? Now, after two years? What can you say are the things that maybe were You were intimidated by or scared of that actually ended up being not so bad? And then the things that may be overlooked that are were harder than you thought they were going to be?
Jayme Jenkins
I would say the biggest like this is when your question, but the biggest surprise was COVID. I think we didn't, I mean that the wait are like time to market a lot. But I do think and it also has made everything much more complicated from a supply chain point of view, you know, everything in terms of getting the product and lots of details there. But I do think there's always we try to always find, you know, silver linings and everything. One thing that has helped us in launching during the pandemic is we've had a lot of access to, through PR to a lot of editors and you know, writers through zoom meetings that we wouldn't normally have been able to reach normally you'd have to go and do like a circuit in New York and LA and meet them face to face that they had time to see you. But I think the fact that everybody could be reached on Zoom, actually worked out in our favour to get more, you know, FaceTime with Intel, our story to more of these beauty journalists. So it's been, you know, there's been lots of challenges because of COVID and the pandemic, but there's also been, you know, things that have been helpful. But I definitely think we'll hopefully be in that class of like, forged by fire entrepreneurs who launched mid-COVID and brought a product to market.
Eric Janssen
Yeah. Okay, so COVID Surprise, made things harder on the supply chain side brand sounds like maybe reaching out or getting in touch with some of these big press outlets with the help of a PR firm was a little bit not easier, because I'm sure there's still work involved. But that's turned out well for you. What about you, Jessica, what's what's been easier than you thought or harder than you thought?
Jessica Stevenson
I remember easier. But I think you know, maybe just really positively surprising, I think was you know, when we're going through the pandemic, you know, the question around sustainability being opposed focus versus you know, price sensitivities, etc, you know, it was not going to be here to stay. And I think something that we saw throughout the pandemic and really strengthening after like, as we're coming... coming out, we're not done, but we're coming out is that you know, people are even they taken a step back, and they've really, you know, thought about, you know, their lifestyle changes the impact they're having on the planet, the climate crisis and different things that are happening around the world. And I think people are actually more aware and I think too, because during the pandemic habits had to change. And so I think as people change those habits, they're a little more open-minded to try Something new. So I think obviously, there was lots of challenges during that time, but just again, seeing it as an opportunity, and just seeing what people are, are, yeah, their awareness is very helpful.
Eric Janssen
So you launched this Jayme, in the middle of a pandemic with a few young children at home. I've read recently, and there's been some commentary on some fairly well-known investors in the valley saying that they wouldn't invest in someone who was taking either paternity leave or maternity leave, which I think is a challenging message to send, because that the signal is that you can't have a family and start a business, which in my own experience is not true, doesn't mean that there aren't trade-offs, or that it's not hard. But I think that it's, it's not true, I think that there is a way to make both happen. You made both happen. And I just love maybe your perspective on what it was really like, and maybe message to other people who might be in that same boat.
Jayme Jenkins
Yeah, hearing, hearing that message that you're sharing is so frustrating because I think it keeps a lot of people, you know, out of this space, where I think there's a need for more, you know, female founders, more parents, more people to, you know, take the leap into entrepreneurship. So I think it's really important to, you know, share studies and case studies of how you know, it can be done. There's some great examples out there. Now, you know, Joanna Griffiths is one of our investors with Everist, she just did a big raise right before she had twins. And I think having these stories out there and sharing them really helps show that there is, you know, so much opportunity, and I won't lie, it's been very challenging. But I think, you know, the reason that it's it's been able to work is because of the people around us, I couldn't have done it without Jess and I think having a wonderful team, whether you have a co-founder, or you have the you know, strong support system around you is absolutely critical to being able to tackle both, because it's very challenging, but also, you know, it's incredibly rewarding to be able to have that fulfilment on both sides of your life, I think people shouldn't be discouraged from, you know, being difficult. I think starting a business is hard. But being a parent is also very hard. I think they're equally hard in their own ways. And I think just making sure that you have that right support system in place, and the right people around you is what makes all the difference.
Eric Janssen
Yeah. And to the extent that you're willing to share, what's the, what's the trade-off between you and your you and your partner, I mean, what starting a business is pretty full-on, it's hard to imagine that, you know, both of you, or, at least in my own experience, it was hard for us both be going full-on same time. And so when we were looking at each other with foot on the pedal, someone had to let up, I let up a bit. And I'm now teaching, but it's also the job that I truly feel like I wanted to do. So it wasn't really don't feel like I was sacrificing, I got to come teach. And that gave me a bunch more flexibility. So I wasn't traveling as much and trying to run a company, if you're willing to share what what's the behind the scenes trade off?
Jayme Jenkins
Well, you know, it's funny, neither of both of us that have our foot on the gas, but I have a wonderful husband, he's a partner at KPMG, he has a very demanding job was well, also like when you're doing when you're in the startup world, you're not really taking much of a salary. So we really do rely on you know, his income, so he can't really stop working or take a big step back. So that's been a hard, you know, challenge because we both have our foot on the gas, but I'm so fortunate that, you know, we really truly have, even though he's making the money, and I'm not making the money, you know, we have an equal partnership. And he is, you know, incredibly involved in all of the parenting, you know, details. And, yeah, I'm really, I'm really grateful for that. And I think you know, other things have had to something always has to give. So other things, you don't have to slip, you know, our house is a mess, and there's laundry everywhere. And we've scaled back on you know, a lot of free time stuff. And we work on the weekends, and we take do shift work when the kids are at home. It's not easy, but I think, you know, we both love our jobs and are committed to our jobs. So you know, something always has to give somewhere. And I think just finding, you know, those places that you're willing to make a compromise for the short term in terms of doing something you love.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, you maybe we can if we spend a second there, let's talk about that for just a reality of what it's what it's really like I think I I appreciate hearing and I think people appreciate hearing that. Like yeah, you might give up your house might not be spotless anymore, you know, you might...
Jayme Jenkins
I am like doing 14 loads of laundry and grocery shopping because we don't have time to do that during the week. So it's really, you know, it's chaotic, and I think trying to carve out a little bit of time for you know, wellness and self care to keep yourself sane is really important. And so we both tried to build you know that in as our little bit of luxury but it's definitely full on right now. So having an awareness of kind of what you're signing up for is important. But if you're the kind of person who you know, gets bored, easily loves to be challenged, likes lots of stimulation, then I would think it's a great option.
Eric Janssen
Jessica, what do you do to stay sane?
Jessica Stevenson
What do I do? Hmm. I mean, I think, you know, obviously, during the pandemic, it was a little bit different. But I think just trying to get outdoors was great, you know, making sure you fit in some fitness, whether it myself is biking, I just actually got a peloton. So I could do that through the winter. So I'm very excited. I'm also you know, I have a great partner, too, my husband is extremely supportive. And so you know, trying to see friends do things like that, and, you know, find that balance, I think it's balance is a funny word, I think we always try to seek balance and careers. And I think it's almost like you're striving for perfection. And it's just not always possible, I think, I think more about like work life integration, and really trying to understand, you know, if you love it, it really just becomes part of your life. And having a little bit of flexibility is amazing. And then if you work evenings, or you work weekends, as Jamie was saying, that's totally fine, if you're passionate about it, but you have that flexibility in other parts of your life. And for me, that's made a huge difference. And I'm very fulfilling. So it's great.
Eric Janssen
Yeah, we don't talk enough, I think about the behind the scenes support network that needs to be in place in order for businesses to happen. You know, I think having a good relationship with a partner who understands what you're signing up for, and the trade offs...
Jayme Jenkins
And grandparents! I need to give a shout out to grandparents for you know, we made the choice to live you know, in the burbs close to our family, and I think having grandparents close by, you know, we're so fortunate to have that when the kids were in and out of school the past year, like that's been incredible. I think we'll be forever grateful for that. So really, that support network, you know, is what makes it possible
Eric Janssen
To the supporting cast, thanks to the supporting cast of all the people who don't get the shout outs, the behind the scenes supporting cast. Last thing, what can we do to help you you're, you've launched just this year, you've got your first, you know, maybe full year of operation coming up? We've got a group of passionate people who are either entrepreneurs or want to be entrepreneurs one day, how can the community help you?
Jessica Stevenson
Great question. Well, obviously, for us right now, you know, we're getting the word out about Avaris. So anything like this is great. And we just want to continue to spread that I think we're also always looking for, you know, partnerships, and like minded, you know, people brands, etc. to collaborate with, we view everybody in this space is, you know, partners making a difference. So we're very open to that type of collaboration on Jayme, if you have anything else on that.
Jayme Jenkins
No, if you are looking for a new shampoo or conditioner, body wash to try the product. If you think you'll love it, it's really,
Jessica Stevenson
Yeah, share your feedback. I think we we really are working on building out our Eco optimist community, as we call them or a group of Everis. And, you know, definitely try the product. Give us feedback. It's really, really helpful. Because on other products, yes. Next, another eco eco upgrades we call it what else are you, you know, struggling to go eco. And we're looking to find innovative solutions to be able to make those changes easier. So the feedback is extremely helpful.
Eric Janssen
Awesome. Well, this is such a unique time to capture your journey, I have no doubt that you're on the right path. And I think you're gonna have a great season here. And I'm excited to see what's to come for the company. So thanks for coming in and allowing us to capture this sort short, little snapshot of this point in your journey. And we'll have you back on when you have your next major milestone, which I'm sure is just on the short term horizon.
Jayme Jenkins
Awesome. Thank you so much, Eric. It's been great.
Eric Janssen
Thank you.
Jessica Stevenson
Thank you
Eric Morse
The Entrepreneur podcast is sponsored by Quantumshift 2008 alum Connie Clerici and Closing the Gap Healthcare Group. To ensure you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player or visit entrepreneurship.uwo.ca/podcast Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.